A Ruby Macaw

OH WOW Berna! Thank you for all that info!! And love the pics of them!!!!

You both raise good points and I do agree with you. I was just trying to look at it from another viewpoint, but you are right, different dog breeds are the product of man, not nature. I guess I wasn't seeing it this way, but yeah, they are all descended from wolves or wild dogs and that is the original animal and the health problems are there because we created them.
I think the hybrids are beautiful, the original breeds are beautiful, it's a shame people have to mess with nature's perfection to try to make money. Have a great weekend everyone!

Hello,

I agree with Berna on her analigy of a copy made spiecies. Your question about dogs is a good one and I will say that a Mutt is a product of there parents as we are. A dog is a domestic animal NOW. Yes they are a form of wolf and the wild dogs of africa but after so many generations of breeding to get the breeds of today there are not much if any of the wolf blood left in its gene pool. I am a big dog person as I have many and they are all pure bloods. I have a rotty, a great dane, and a st. bernard and I have had countless others over the years. Yes the larger breeds do have joint and hip problems for sure but they are also a breed that is made up for a certain job class. Lets look at all the so called NEW breeds- Labadoddles-pecapoo-chipug and so on. This is not only a way for bredders to make a great deal of money but they have even got the AKC to reconize the breeds. What a crock of shi-. This is what I call a mutt that you can get from the local pound or rescue. So now take a step back and look at this for a moment. Does this sound like a way for breeders to make money on a so called new breed. This gets me so pissed off that this is going on. They are all making the so called dog of the future and all they are doing is making a boat load of money off this. This is the same with the bird world. Now look at both animals and see what is so different in cross breeding. 1) A bird is classified as a wild animal. 2) A dog is classified as a domestic animal. 3) A bird in the wild will only mate with there own kind. 4) A dog will mate with any other dog 5) A bird in the wild will never inbreed 6) A dog will inbreed. There are many differences in the animals and by man getting involved in cross breeding will only make it harder for the birds to make it in the long run. A dog that will live for 10-16 years will have a better life medically then a bird of 45-100 years. There is not enough proven GOOD data that a hybrid bird is as good or healthy as a pure blood. The data shows that a hybrid is 75% more likelly to have disorders mentally and physically then a pure blood. The data id there but we still go and cross breed for what the MONEY. It is a shame that we as humans do this to nature and we still continue to try to get our hands into everything. Look at the hybrids and see that they are beautiful but look at the pure bloods also and see that they are just as beautiful if not more then there bi-product. For the future of the birds please look into only getting the pure bloods. If you look at the hybrids they are mostly made up of the Macaws and not other species, such as the Greys, Amazons, Conures ect. The Macaw is the chosen bird for hybrids and you ask why is that? Because the Macaws are the largest purchased birds of all the birds and they can make a new Macaw to make the public think that they have a new or a rare species. What a crock of SHI-. I hate this as you can see. This is the humans doing what we do best making money off the nature.


Mario

You brought up a good point with the "pure-bred" dogs, and yes, muts are offten longer lived and less prone to health issues than their pure counterparts. The difference though is that all the different dogs are "man made" and are all descendants from Wolves. The pure bred Wolf doesn't have any major health issues because it is the original. Inbreeding for size, color, and temperment are what got us the pure bred dogs of today...thus the issue's with health. Think of a copy machine as the gene pool of a pure bred dog, if you make a copy and then a copy of the copy, and so on and so on, the copy changes and imperfections show up more and more often. When you look at the genes of a mut there are two different copies put together, so there are less identical inperfections which leads to a lesser chance of hereditary/genetic health issues. A Blue & Gold for example was not a product of inbreeding, but evolution, so it's offspring is an original copy every time unless it is inbred. When you take a copy of a B&G and lets say a Scarlet you are mushing to totally different copies togeather. I'm sure there was many more "reject byproducts" when a new dog breed was being bred, and and they were taken out of the gene pool and that's what you are going to get with hybrid parrots...the luck of the draw of good and bad.

Like I mentioned before, the one Harliquina macaw I know is such a doll, but I have heard first hand of major issues with other hybrids. There is a woman that comes in the store to buy food all the time and she has a young Catalina macaw that has been sick sense she got it. It has been battling Aspergillosis and all the complications that come along with it, and I would bet that because it is a hybrid it's system did not have the same integrity as a full blood B&B or Scarlet which could have lead to it's infection.

Would I ever own a hybrid? I might, but I would NEVER buy one, I would take one from a refuge center or from an owner that could no longer car for it. I will not support a breeder that is more into profit than the species.

Don't let this seem argumentative and please don't anyone get offended but I just wonder if sometimes the cross isn't good for the bloodlines? For example- in dogs, pure bred dogs are sometimes so inbred that they have genetic problems like hip dysplasia problems in german shepherds and eye problems in dalmations. When you get a mixed breed dog the problems are less and usually their disposition is better too. I am not a dog breeder and not a scientist so I don't speak from a scientific point of view, I'm just wondering.
These birds might not exist in the wild but if they can successfully breed might it not be a good thing for their bloodlines in the future? I think they are beautiful birds and its too bad if the crossing produces mental problems in the birds and that is definitely something to keep in mind. ANyway, just some food for thought. It's an interesting topic anyway.

Hello,

You see that the colors are beautiful. What a front. This is the example of man taking mother nature in there hands. We as humand look at it as WOW what a bird. The back lash is the saftey, health, and the mental condition that the bird will have to face in the years. It is a proven fact that a hybrid bird does not have the long lasting life that a pure blood has. A hybrid will have conditions that a pure blood will not have. In the long run you make the choice wether it is worth it to have a man made bird or a pure blood. I love some of the hybrids but I will not give into the man made bird. The hybrids are a way for breeders( in my opinion not good breeders) to make high dollars on what they call a special or rare bird. It is not either a special or a rare bird at all it is a man made money maker. A rare bird is a species that is either very hard to find or is on the cusp of extenction. A rare bird is like the St Vincent Amazon for example. These are pure bred birds in the wild that are so hard to find that it is a true RARE bird, not a man made bird. So if you are in the market of a hybrid please look into a pure bred and give NATURE the chance and not a man made MONEY maker. It is true that a hybrid can have a good personallity or go to any one like Berna has had to deal with, but is it worth the chance to have the alternitive.

Mario

OH WOW Berna! Thank you for all that info!! And love the pics of them!!!!

I have a few hybrids I deal with on a regular basis. We have a Harlequin at the store...his father is a B&G and mother is a Greenwing. He is a great bird, but he needs an owner that can take a bite and lets him know who's boss. As of right now he is the Alpha bird of the flock of macaws. I also know two Harlequina macaws...a hybrid-hybrid of the Harliquin and the Catalina. The one is owned by my mechanic, Jack, and the other comes into my work every few months for wings and nail trimming. The one that comes into my work is by far one of the BEST macaws I have ever met! She loves everyone and snuggles with anyone that holds her...even after her trim!

I have heard that the Harliquin and Catalina can happen in the wild...in areas where there are more males than females of one species and more females than males in the other...but is so rare they are not concidered a wild species. I still do not condone the captive breeding of any type of hybrid parrots in captivity because so many parrots are endangered in the wild and we need to keep the bloodlines that we have pure. An example as to why it is so important to keep bloodlines pure is out in Australia there are no longer any pure lines of a sub-species left in the wild due to mixed breeds in private aviaries escaping and mixing with the wild population.

Here is a list of pretty much all the different hybird macaws.
Blue & Gold X Scarlet = Catalina
Blue & Gold X Greenwing = Harliquin
Blue & Gold X Hyacinth = Caloshua
Blue & Gold X Red-Front = Maui Sunset
Blue & Gold X Buffons = Bluffons
Scarlet X Greenwing = Ruby
Scarlet X Military = Shamrock
Scarlet X Buffons = Verde
Catalina X Scarlet = Camelot
Camalot X Scarlet = Capri
Greenwing X Military = Calico
Military X Blue & Gold = Miligold
Military X Buffons = Miliffons
Buffons X Greenwing = Buffwing
Greenwing X Calico = Cameo
Catalina X Greenwing = Flame
Harlequin X Catalina = Harlequina
Harlequin X Greenwing = Jubilee


Here are a few pictures of hybrid macaws...

Miligold


Milicinth


Maui Sunset


Colashua


Catalina


Bluffons

Thank you Mario for explain the specie difference for everyone.
And yes first generations are very PMS. and unpredictable.
I have a catalina here and she is very mellow compared to some I have seen.
What i understand about her past is she came from a crack drug house.
And i believe it has effected her mentally, not physical that the vet can see.
And i dont know how this will effect her in the years to come, but what i understand with children that have been in these types of homes, they end up with like ADHD or similar effects.And yes she was exposed to chemicals in the home.....
thanks donna

Those are all very good points Mario! Thanks for pointing all that out! I wouldn't have thought of it that way!

And the PMS, how dare you! lol

Hello,

Yes Greenwing that is what they are called. One thing everyone needs to know about hybrids is this. They are a cross between 2 species of birds that in the wild would never cross. A Catalina, Ruby, Colson etc are all man made birds. They do not exzist in the wild and never will. You and I think WOW what a bird and what colors they have, But medically they are not going to be as healthy as a pure bred. Crossing species just opens Pandoras box for trouble in the long run. Vets and bird behavor experts will tell all of us that there is no TRUE DATA on record of these species. For example if you are going to get a Catalina that is a cross between a Blue and Gold and a Scarlett. They are beautiful birds but they are also going to be a mess in the gene pool catagory. A blue and Gold and a Scarlett are as far apart as men and women. The Blue and Gold has a great personallity and has a tolerance for humans touching them in all places, the Scarlett on the other hand is the total opposite. They are very moody and some do not want to be touched at all. Now you put the two genes together and what do you get? A bird you will not know any thing about. Medically they are more prone to behavior issues, illness to the internal organs, mood swings, sezures, Bi-polor and belive it or not to be scitsofrinic. That is a big chance to take when you are spending 1500.00-4500.00 for a bird. Yes is it possiable to happen in a pure bred? Yes, but the chances are much less then a man made bird. Another thing is when that bird becomes sexually mature what is there hormones going to do? I will tell you, they will be on excuse my example but PMS for a very long time. There is no certainty that this bird will be ready for breeding later because it will be emotionlly messed up. So if you are going to get a hybrid please be aware that there are possiable backlash effects. I love the Catalina myself but I will not go and get one because of its gene make-up. I will not put myself in a siuation that I have no idea what am I going to get out of this species. The pros amd cons do not equal out in my book. Also remember that anything that man tries to do to detour mother nature usually whinds up in disaster.

Mario

I heard of a hyacinth/blue and gold Hybrid they called Colson, but I've never seen one, and I only know what there called! (Well, at least that what I was told there were called?)

in my opinion I think Hybrids are kind of rare, but i think people will be seeing more of the hybrids being introduced.
The first generation are unpredictable as far as behavior.
they seemed to be more high strung then your original breeds.
But a breeder that I know that breeds hybrids, says the 2nd generations are much calmer and very smart.

The rubys he breeds are very beautiful birds.
I think when people are studing about birds they need to also include Hybrids.
What i have seen over the years people have bred hybid amazons .
They also seemed to be very popular lately or this is what i have seen.
When I have gotten an amazon at times I have had trouble trying to find out what it is.because it kind of looks like one specie but then it has makings of another.

So now im seeing Macaws that are being bred and turning them into Hybrid.
I heard the other day there is a man locally that has a hyacinth/blue and gold..
What a combination huh!
and I also heard someone has a hyacinth/ Military.
Dont know what these 2 birds would look like but could only imagine.
thanks donna

Thanks Donna! Are Hybrid's rare? Or is something we will be seeing more of? And are they about the same prices?

A Ruby is a cross from a greenwing and a Scarlet.
Jinx is a 2nd generation hybrid .......
Thanks donna

Oh wow! He is pretty! What is he a hybrid of?

meet Jinx, he is a Ruby macaw, he belongs to a firnd of mine.
i thought i would share this photo of him,
he is a second generation Hybrid, and is such a smart bird.
thanks donna